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    To reduce the extreme lag at the end

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    Brodyaga

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2010-12-09

    To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:31 am

    Why not to make the Bane Lords in lesser numbers but increase the power of a single unit?

    This would also make the Big Bertha not to be so obsolete and completely useless in the last two waves.

    Yes, Big Berthas now are "big" only by their name and by the waisted room, that they take at the base. Their footprint is unreasonably big, if to take to consideration their total weakness and the very few health points combined with the fact that they are subjected to the massive air attack from the huge cloud of Corraptors that is gathered in less than half a minute over your base after the attack started (because Big Berthas now is some kind of crippled unit for the fight). In addition, under the new condition of the late attacks focused on the most deadly flying units, player can not send Ravens forward in order to increase Berthas vision. (Yes, Ravens are also useless now: you can not use the dozen of them to wipe the Hatcheries at the last waves - they got killed very quickly.)

    If someone wants to fight off the last waves, he can't use so called "Big" Berthas any more: he needs the different units with the powerful area attack, like bunch of Skypiersers or Colosses from the Protoss tech in amount of far over hundred in supply (without making any base as in was before (other than necessary powering the Protoss tech and building bunch of Rechargers near the chosen place of final fight), so you would not waist any supply. Protoss tech's gigantic walkers is the only the way to beat the map now.


    Last edited by Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Starke

    Posts : 201
    Join date : 2010-12-12
    Location : San Diego, California, United States

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Starke on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:27 pm

    Is this on Brutal? In all my Normal recent games, my (very experienced) allies and I laugh at the map. We all base apart, taking over a major sector of the map and strip-mining it dry, and watching the Zerg smash against our defenses. Last time I played a Normal game, I focused on mining gas, and WITHOUT a Probe, I amassed THIRTEEN BIG BERTHAS, 20-25 Tesla Coils, 20-25 Minigun-Turrets, and 15-ish Restorers. I have the replay. We all laughed as I insta-killed the Motherships. Laughing And I didn't even get largest amount of resources, although the player who did had two Probes to assist him and focused on minerals.

    a) Normal is harder right now. Too hard for newer players? The new wave change to "focused" waves is kinda cool, but made things harder.

    b) Normal is NOTHING compared to Brutal. Wink Mad Evil or Very Mad Normal still is a cakewalk for players used to Brutal. And considering the gap between the two, that is understandable.

    I would suggest removing or toning down the new focused waves, and reducing the number of Corruptors/reducing their health, both on Normal and Brutal. They have a lot of health and so a lot of damage, which is what makes the Big Bertha's 900 health seem so small. I have other suggestions, but I have posted those plenty elsewhere. Wink

    Brodyaga

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2010-12-09

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:59 pm

    Starke wrote:...Normal game, I focused on mining gas, and WITHOUT a Probe, I amassed THIRTEEN BIG BERTHAS, 20-25 Tesla Coils, 20-25 Minigun-Turrets, and 15-ish Restorers...

    This sounds like over 5300 in Gas...

    To get this ammount you had to be very lucky with early finding the group of about 15 abundant Geyzers together and empty them with Drones, leaving other players next to nothing. And early finding the Fusion Core, right?

    We don't have to take the cases of the rare exeptions into concideration, do we?)
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    Starke

    Posts : 201
    Join date : 2010-12-12
    Location : San Diego, California, United States

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Starke on Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:22 pm

    Yes, you nailed the gas quantity, and it was mined exclusively with my SCV. I estimate my SCV spent 60% of the game mining gas, day and night. clown It helps that the geysers now contain more gas, but it takes FOREVER to mine them. Anyway, this was certainly an abnormal game. However, the general idea is not. I have not lost a Normal match in two weeks, although admittedly I usually play Brutal. On the other hand, my personal experience is very different from most players, because I am "trained" to play Brutal WITH players also trained to play Brutal. I can still solo the map easily. But you are probably closer to the average player experience on the map, and I am not dismissing your point.

    Brodyaga

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2010-12-09

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:20 pm

    Starke wrote:...I can still solo the map easily. But you are probably closer to the average player experience on the map, and I am not dismissing your point.

    Everything in life is changing and developing. And my experience as well as yours.

    I can easily beat the map solo too now, which is the same as your declared skill level, right?

    It is, actually, now easier to win solo, than to do it by the team of four: all the Factories are much closure to the center and easier to find: I believe it was patched.

    The Zerg units are also weaker.

    In addition, you don't get distracted with the need to explain noobs what to do and waste time to run through the half of the map to save them.

    Also nobody stills the resources from the area that you just cleaned from the Zerg, sending you to clear another area and wasting precious stolen from you resources on useless things.

    So, it is much easier to get the fast victory on your own than in a company of 3 noobs.

    About your case: I am pretty sure that all your Geysers were at the location where you could already start building your defense with the Big Berthas established permanently and use them to clear the area.

    And... during the same 2 weeks I also haven't loose any game where I decided not to experiment with #3 ending and just quickly went towards quick victory. Well, to be honest: there were a few other experiments, when I lost, but I can win every time now too.
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    Starke

    Posts : 201
    Join date : 2010-12-12
    Location : San Diego, California, United States

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Starke on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:25 pm

    Alright. Let's refocus and talk balance. If I understood your first post correctly, you are saying that Big Berthas are obsolete because they take up too much room, are vulnerable to Corruptors, and cannot use their full range. Please correct me if I misunderstood. =)

    I usually have fewer problems with their size because I tend to base on large high-ground areas, such as the ring. (just personal choice) I usually build my Big Berths in range of my battery of Restorers, and can have my Mules repair as well. Sometimes it also helps to drop a Missile Turret or two in front of the Big Berthas as well.

    Could you send me a replay of your "usual" base? It would give me a good idea of how your base functions. I can learn from you, and offer my feedback. Win-win. Very Happy

    I'll PM you my email. If you want, I could send you one of my replays. It's always cool to exchange strategies, especially since yours is very different than mine.

    Maybe the 13 Berthas replay? Cool Wink

    Brodyaga

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2010-12-09

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:07 pm

    Starke wrote:Alright. Let's refocus and talk balance. If I understood your first post correctly, you are saying that Big Berthas are obsolete because they take up too much room, are vulnerable to Corruptors, and cannot use their full range. Please correct me if I misunderstood...

    Yes, this is exactly what I am trying to say.

    Brodyaga

    Posts : 148
    Join date : 2010-12-09

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  Brodyaga on Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:23 pm

    Starke wrote:...I usually have fewer problems with their size because I tend to base on large high-ground areas, such as the ring. (just personal choice) I usually build my Big Berths in range of my battery of Restorers, and can have my Mules repair as well. Sometimes it also helps to drop a Missile Turret or two in front of the Big Berthas as well.

    Could you send me a replay of your "usual" base? It would give me a good idea of how your base functions. I can learn from you, and offer my feedback. Win-win. Very Happy

    Because I have difficulty when trying to communicate fast, recently I've tended to base on the West, in the middle: then I can avoid the need of coordinating my efforts with somebody: I can just put the Beacon early, and keep adding some defense and restorers while doing parallel harvesting. There are to many different ideas in different people: someone can start building extra Ship while another builds Beacons, calling in extra Leviathan...

    If I have enough army early in the game, I can go to base South-East in order to kill Leviathan early, before it produces too many Bane Lords and other units on it's slow way.

    But it depends on the free space and if there any Geysers or minerals there.

    Sure, I will look through some saved replays and send the good one. Would be interesting to get a feedback from you).

    Would like to see how exactly you managed #3 ending with Berthas.
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    dra6o0n

    Posts : 62
    Join date : 2010-12-15

    Re: To reduce the extreme lag at the end

    Post  dra6o0n on Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:09 pm

    Allow Brutal mode only upgrades to structures, but make them balance in cost.

    Auto Turret can be upgraded to a Double Auto Turret, shooting two shots each time instead of one. Improved health and range (+100 / +1 range).

    Missile Turrets can be upgraded to a Salvo Turret, being able to launch swarms of missiles at groups of zerg air units, dealing more damage at a slower attack speed, at a further range. Improves health and armor (+150 / +1 Armor) and salvo targets up to 5 air units and deals area damage.

    Restorer can be upgraded to a Energizer, changing it's function from healing and restoring energy, to just restoring energy to nearby structures rapidly, with a huge energy capacity and regeneration. (2000 Energy with a regeneration of 50/second and restoring at 200/second)

    All Brutal mode upgrade costs supplies to upgrade them, which severely limits your number of turrets, but if you position them well enough, will make up for it.

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